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misanagiLately some people have been sharing different articles that were published about fanfiction and slash or yaoi writing. The ones I've read had always been from an outsider's point of view; someone who stumbles into our writer subculture and wants to know more. One of the main topics of these slash articles is trying to explain why a woman would like to write about men in love. Some explained what the author of the article thought were the causes, and some asked members of the community for their input. In both cases, they spoke for the whole community when they tried to explain what motivates women to write slash; and all the times I found myself reading and thinking 'that's not why /I/ do it.'
I know I might not be very experienced. I've only written yaoi for one fandom while many people I know have slashed everything that is 'slashable'. However, I was interested in writing homoerotic (and sometimes just pornographic) tales, so I must have my own reasons for doing it, and I was determined to find them.
The most popular answer I have heard is "it's sexy"; simple and to the point. I have to agree with that one. The mental image of two handsome men together is definitely worthwhile and a good reason to write. However, at least for me, this isn't the only reason. As sexy as it might be, it is not the sole force that moves my writing, and definitely not the deeper.
So if the reason isn't the "hot factor" or the sexual scenes it must be the relationships. I misquote: "Slash fiction is a way for women to idealize relationships. Having two male characters, they are equal partners, making it a fantasy every woman would like to see fulfilled." Normally when I read this type of answer I find myself shaking my head. These are only my personal views but I can't identify with this answer, not even a little bit. I don't like relationships. I blame it on the fact that I was an only child and I value solitude a lot. I tried the boyfriend thing and it didn't work. He was great and you can say we fitted together, but I'm just not made for that. I know it might seem like I'm rambling, but the fact that I don't want a relationship with anyone that goes beyond friendship, should explain why I don't idealize relationships in my writing. My ideal relationship /is/ friendship.
The second argument is the equal partnership. I do admit that when I write yaoi both characters are equal. I don't care much for who is top or bottom but I do know that some people do. I won't go into that but I do like to mention that not all slash writing is about equality. I can't talk for every slash writer out there, because that would be doing the same thing I am criticizing, but I can say that the problem of equality for women has never crossed my mind when I'm writing yaoi.
Following the line of that last possible cause for writing slash, there is also the suggestion that the female writer channels her personality into one of the male characters, making him the 'woman' of the relationship. I do tend to channel some of my personality traits into the characters I write. I take things from real life and fit them it into the story. I think it makes the characters more complex. However, I don't try to make a character a reflection of myself. I think that getting a part of you into the characters (all the characters) is important but letting them keep their own personalities is crucial. So, if I character is male, I wouldn't make him into a woman with a male body. It would defy my purpose of writing two male characters in love.
In contrast to the last explanation, there are those who say that women don't like to see other women in fictions. If there isn't a female character, there is no one to compare to or to feel jealous off. Well, the thing is that I do enjoy female characters; I enjoy them a lot. If we are talking only about a visual reference, I can say that I'm always the first to admit when a woman is beautiful. And I enjoy contemplating beautiful people, no matter the gender. As much as I like to take action, many times I enjoy being an observer just as much. Watching people is fascinating, and I don't tend to be jealous of those I observe. Don't get me wrong, I am human and I can get nostalgic if I see something I can't have, but that doesn't mean that I won't enjoy watching others who can have it. Now if we are talking about the characters I'm writing (weather they are mine or I borrowed them), I would enjoy it even more, since it is a little something I am giving to them. I couldn't feel jealous of a character I'm writing. They are mine in a way (even the borrowed ones), my creation.
After having decided that none of the usual reasons applied to me, I tried to look for my own reason to write slash. I started with a simple statement: "I love men". I like watching them, I like to see how they behave, what motivates them and I love to see how they relate to others.
I am not an anthropologist and what I'm going to state next are just my views, the way /I/ perceive men and women. Males have a particular way of interacting that differs somehow to women's. You can say women are more emotional when men are more restrained. I think that humans, no matter the gender share the same emotions and they can be just as strong, however the way they shown them is what changes. I'm going to talk only about relationship now since attempting to write my views of men and women in all aspects of life is too much for this.
Men are more subtle. They have a quiet way of acting and showing that they care. I think the difference in relationships for men and women is the same as in actions and words. Of course I'm not saying that one sex values one more than the other. What I'm trying to say is that men prefer actions while women prefer those actions to be accompanied with words.
When I was seventeen, my class went to a three day trip to the beach. We would be graduating a month later and that was the last trip we would ever take together. I remember sitting on the airport waiting for our fly to be called and watching three of my male classmates posing for a picture. They had been best friends for many years and I knew that after we graduated, each of them was going to go to a different part of the world. I couldn't help but thinking of that picture as the last memory the would have of that friendship in a very distant future. I know it might be odd but that type of thing has always appealed to me.
If there is something that I have always enjoyed observing is how men relate to other men. I love watching all kinds of relationships, not just two men in love; a father and a son, brothers, two friends, some distant cousins, co-workers, and even just a couple of males that just met. Men who cared for each other are a very interesting subject.
That's one of the reasons I'm against womanizing one of the characters. When I want to write a heterosexual relationship I simply use a female character. Of course I don't claim that my writings are the reflection of the way a homosexual relationship works. I'm not a gay male and I have no friends in real life who are. What I write are my perceptions of the way the characters act and how I have seen male relate to each other, even if observing close friendships is the only reference I've got.
So my reason for writing slash is very simple. I love to explore male characters and the way they act together. It is something that is out of my reach, which makes it very interesting. I can only experience it from an outsider's point of view, so when I write it, I make it my own. One of the things that motivate me to write is that I like to play God. When I'm writing I control things somehow. It gives me a chance to dive into worlds that can't be my own. The funny thing is that at the end, it the creations always break free, and the writer is the one losing control.
I know I might not be very experienced. I've only written yaoi for one fandom while many people I know have slashed everything that is 'slashable'. However, I was interested in writing homoerotic (and sometimes just pornographic) tales, so I must have my own reasons for doing it, and I was determined to find them.
The most popular answer I have heard is "it's sexy"; simple and to the point. I have to agree with that one. The mental image of two handsome men together is definitely worthwhile and a good reason to write. However, at least for me, this isn't the only reason. As sexy as it might be, it is not the sole force that moves my writing, and definitely not the deeper.
So if the reason isn't the "hot factor" or the sexual scenes it must be the relationships. I misquote: "Slash fiction is a way for women to idealize relationships. Having two male characters, they are equal partners, making it a fantasy every woman would like to see fulfilled." Normally when I read this type of answer I find myself shaking my head. These are only my personal views but I can't identify with this answer, not even a little bit. I don't like relationships. I blame it on the fact that I was an only child and I value solitude a lot. I tried the boyfriend thing and it didn't work. He was great and you can say we fitted together, but I'm just not made for that. I know it might seem like I'm rambling, but the fact that I don't want a relationship with anyone that goes beyond friendship, should explain why I don't idealize relationships in my writing. My ideal relationship /is/ friendship.
The second argument is the equal partnership. I do admit that when I write yaoi both characters are equal. I don't care much for who is top or bottom but I do know that some people do. I won't go into that but I do like to mention that not all slash writing is about equality. I can't talk for every slash writer out there, because that would be doing the same thing I am criticizing, but I can say that the problem of equality for women has never crossed my mind when I'm writing yaoi.
Following the line of that last possible cause for writing slash, there is also the suggestion that the female writer channels her personality into one of the male characters, making him the 'woman' of the relationship. I do tend to channel some of my personality traits into the characters I write. I take things from real life and fit them it into the story. I think it makes the characters more complex. However, I don't try to make a character a reflection of myself. I think that getting a part of you into the characters (all the characters) is important but letting them keep their own personalities is crucial. So, if I character is male, I wouldn't make him into a woman with a male body. It would defy my purpose of writing two male characters in love.
In contrast to the last explanation, there are those who say that women don't like to see other women in fictions. If there isn't a female character, there is no one to compare to or to feel jealous off. Well, the thing is that I do enjoy female characters; I enjoy them a lot. If we are talking only about a visual reference, I can say that I'm always the first to admit when a woman is beautiful. And I enjoy contemplating beautiful people, no matter the gender. As much as I like to take action, many times I enjoy being an observer just as much. Watching people is fascinating, and I don't tend to be jealous of those I observe. Don't get me wrong, I am human and I can get nostalgic if I see something I can't have, but that doesn't mean that I won't enjoy watching others who can have it. Now if we are talking about the characters I'm writing (weather they are mine or I borrowed them), I would enjoy it even more, since it is a little something I am giving to them. I couldn't feel jealous of a character I'm writing. They are mine in a way (even the borrowed ones), my creation.
After having decided that none of the usual reasons applied to me, I tried to look for my own reason to write slash. I started with a simple statement: "I love men". I like watching them, I like to see how they behave, what motivates them and I love to see how they relate to others.
I am not an anthropologist and what I'm going to state next are just my views, the way /I/ perceive men and women. Males have a particular way of interacting that differs somehow to women's. You can say women are more emotional when men are more restrained. I think that humans, no matter the gender share the same emotions and they can be just as strong, however the way they shown them is what changes. I'm going to talk only about relationship now since attempting to write my views of men and women in all aspects of life is too much for this.
Men are more subtle. They have a quiet way of acting and showing that they care. I think the difference in relationships for men and women is the same as in actions and words. Of course I'm not saying that one sex values one more than the other. What I'm trying to say is that men prefer actions while women prefer those actions to be accompanied with words.
When I was seventeen, my class went to a three day trip to the beach. We would be graduating a month later and that was the last trip we would ever take together. I remember sitting on the airport waiting for our fly to be called and watching three of my male classmates posing for a picture. They had been best friends for many years and I knew that after we graduated, each of them was going to go to a different part of the world. I couldn't help but thinking of that picture as the last memory the would have of that friendship in a very distant future. I know it might be odd but that type of thing has always appealed to me.
If there is something that I have always enjoyed observing is how men relate to other men. I love watching all kinds of relationships, not just two men in love; a father and a son, brothers, two friends, some distant cousins, co-workers, and even just a couple of males that just met. Men who cared for each other are a very interesting subject.
That's one of the reasons I'm against womanizing one of the characters. When I want to write a heterosexual relationship I simply use a female character. Of course I don't claim that my writings are the reflection of the way a homosexual relationship works. I'm not a gay male and I have no friends in real life who are. What I write are my perceptions of the way the characters act and how I have seen male relate to each other, even if observing close friendships is the only reference I've got.
So my reason for writing slash is very simple. I love to explore male characters and the way they act together. It is something that is out of my reach, which makes it very interesting. I can only experience it from an outsider's point of view, so when I write it, I make it my own. One of the things that motivate me to write is that I like to play God. When I'm writing I control things somehow. It gives me a chance to dive into worlds that can't be my own. The funny thing is that at the end, it the creations always break free, and the writer is the one losing control.
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no subject
Date: 2004-07-26 08:12 am (UTC)All of the best slash writers I've ever met say the same thing, and I'm very inclined to agree. I find the male psyche fascinating- it's exotic and mysterious to us (women in general) and hypothesizing on it is an extremely creative endeavour. I generally loathe yaoi (wherein 'yaoi' is characterized by the yaoi stereotypes
-bottom/top distinctions, height rule, feminizing 'uke'/bastardizing 'seme', etc...) and have been very picky with what I read.
I suppose, being a smut writer, the question of bottom/top always comes up. For me, that is an issue of social defiance- when I think one character is being featured by the fandom in one position and it's ruining his character, I'll flip it. I *actually* have ODD, so that's how it works. That only dictates the positioning during the sex- this should never colour their personalities. Sometimes I'm totally random. Unlike many yaoi fangirls, I have no problem with fics featuring heterosexual couples- I love them, read them and write them when I'm inspired to do so.
I'm not a gay male and I have no friends in real life who are. What I write are my perceptions of the way the characters act and how I have seen males relate to each other, even if observing close friendships is the only reference I've got
Writing in this subculture for me was fuelled by real life because, as a classical singer, I spend a good deal of time with homosexual men. It sounds like a stereotype, but 65% of my leading men (tenors) are homosexual, and when you're surrounded you will be affected. However, what I wanted to say is that the relationship dynamic will always be dictated by the personalities, no matter what the sexual orientation (at least that's how I see it) I hate it when people try to *make* their characters gay. Honestly, what the hell does that include? In terms of sexuality, I basically treat my characters as bisexual, not only for artistic purposes, but because I think that's where the human race is headed from an evolutionary standpoint.
I couldn't feel jealous of a character I'm writing. They are mine in a way (even the borrowed ones), my creation.
That's a lovely way of putting it, thank you.
...Female writer channels her personality into one of the male characters, making him the 'woman' of the relationship. I do tend to channel some of my personality traits into the characters I write.
It's impossible *not* to channel something of yourself into your characters- you can only write to your own limitations. Everything comes from your brain, thus the characters are somewhat extensions of you. A good writer will put something of him/herself into *every* character- it's when one character is entirely fleshed out and the rest are cardboard that the fic is in danger. *That* is the fangirling that characterizes crap fic.
I recall something my Program Advisor said once: 'A good writer- an inventive writer- is someone who tells a story no one else can tell in a way distinctly 'him'.' The above was in reference to original works, however, doesn't this seem more applicable in fanfiction? We're all using the same characters and the same worlds (most of the time). We have an obligation to the original artists to *not* destroy their characters, but we also have to be creative and different because we're using the same base materials.
One of the things that motivate me to write is that I like to play God
Definitely. It's what I call Elevationism (which was the basis for Galatea). Playing God/Creator is at the heart of most artistic endeavours, I think. It's also the reason why so many writers are control-freaks. :p
Urgh, sorry I rambled forever. Your post was just very interesting, Missy. I've read many of those articles on 'yaoi' and they frustrate me a bit. Some of us are more dedicated to the craft of writing than to fangirlism (not to say that a bit of fangirling isn't good :p), and not all of us are 'afraid of men' or whatever justification they like to use.
no subject
Date: 2004-07-27 12:33 am (UTC)That's exactly why I am attracted to yaoi. It is a possibility to explore men with men. It's completely foreign and that's what makes it so appealing. In a way is a journey through a land I wouldn't be able to explore any other way.
I suppose, being a smut writer, the question of bottom/top always comes up. For me, that is an issue of social defiance- when I think one character is being featured by the fandom in one position and it's ruining his character, I'll flip it.
I have only written two lemons and I don't think they classify me as a smut writer. But when I had to face the question of who is top and who is bottom I usually go with what works for the story and it has nothing to do with what the fic society thinks should be.
Unlike many yaoi fangirls, I have no problem with fics featuring heterosexual couples- I love them, read them and write them when I'm inspired to do so.
It's the same thing with me. The fact that I enjoy yaoi doesn't mean that I don't enjoy het too. I write it as well and enjoy it just as much. I might approach it in a different way since a relationship that involves a woman is more familiar territory to me that one that doesn't, but it doesn't mean in any way that I value one above the other.
the relationship dynamic will always be dictated by the personalities, no matter what the sexual orientation (at least that's how I see it) I hate it when people try to *make* their characters gay.
I agree. When I write I think of the characters as male but not as gay, if that makes any sense. I don't think that there is a way to make a character gay. Really, that's just a part of a vast personality and not everything can be written in the light of that.
I basically treat my characters as bisexual, not only for artistic purposes, but because I think that's where the human race is headed from an evolutionary standpoint.
*smiles* You put into words something I've been thinking for a long while. I can't put it any better.
A good writer will put something of him/herself into *every* character
Definitely. No matter how small is the part a character plays, if you want the story to work and you want to give it depth, every character has to be three-dimensional. What a writer channels into the character is his/her own traits and perceptions. The trick is that the writer needs to fracture every part of his personality and distribute that into the different characters. That, along with the own character's evolution, is what makes it three-dimensional.
"...we also have to be creative and different because we're using the same base materials."
*nods* that's what I think it's called the author's voice. It isn’t the technique or the plot, but those things the author chooses to use, to pay attention to, and to deem important. That is definitely subjective and it makes the story original, no matter if it is fanfiction or not.
it's what I call Elevationism (which was the basis for Galatea). Playing God/Creator is at the heart of most artistic endeavours,
Elevationism. I like that word and yes, I think it describes the feeling perfectly (btw, let me just remind you how much I loved Galatea. I think it was because in a way I could relate so much to the way you characterized Trowa there and the problems you approached. They were writing problems and you and I appear to think the same way in many of these writing issues ^_^.)
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no subject
Date: 2004-07-27 12:34 am (UTC)Urgh, sorry I rambled forever. Your post was just very interesting, Missy.
I don't mind. I love this type of discussions (I knew there was a reason I'm studying literature) And I'm glad that you found it interesting. Sometimes I just start thinking about things and they won't leave me alone until I do something about it, so I did.
I've read many of those articles on 'yaoi' and they frustrate me a bit. Some of us are more dedicated to the craft of writing than to fangirlism (not to say that a bit of fangirling isn't good :p), and not all of us are 'afraid of men' or whatever justification they like to use.
Yes, that's exactly why I started thinking about this and ended up writing it. I found myself reading those articles and thinking "that's not me!". So I figured that I should try to explain my point of view clearly and maybe state that those reasons (as valid as they might be) are not the only ones.